Multimeter/Ammeter Recommendations

Ed,

I've had very good luck with the Cen-Tech line, which are Fluke knock
offs. You can get these are Harbor Freight. I've had a 37772-3VGA for 5
years now - I used it when I was repairing digital copiers so I can
tell you it works well in field conditions. I've also got their
42397-0VGA which is a clamp on version. The 37772 has a temp. probe,
which is something you don't know you need, but you do.

Max
http://www.northernmichigansolar.com

Edward Lomax

2006-06-08 03:57:21 UTC

Post by beemerwacker
Ed,
I've had very good luck with the Cen-Tech line, which are Fluke knock
offs. You can get these are Harbor Freight. I've had a 37772-3VGA for 5
years now - I used it when I was repairing digital copiers so I can
tell you it works well in field conditions. I've also got their
42397-0VGA which is a clamp on version. The 37772 has a temp. probe,
which is something you don't know you need, but you do.
Max
http://www.northernmichigansolar.com

Beemerwacker, Hawker, Jeff, Dave, DJ, et al:

MANY thanks to you all for your helpful advice and suggestions.

I have ordered catalogs from Fluke, Wavetech, and Extech. I will also
look into the Cen-Tech line. I will make a decision after read the
catalogs and do some additional research on some of the models that were
suggested.

I did not mean to start a potential flame war over the merits of cheap
versus expensive meters.

In answer to DJ's question:

I took the Residential Photovoltaic Installation Workshop in the Solar
Energy Center at the State University of New York (SUNY) Farmingdale
last month.

http://www.tech.farmingdale.edu/depts/met/solar/

Farmingdale is located on Long Island, New York.

This was an *excellent* workshop and well worth my time.

SUNY Farmingdale is also an exam site for the NABCEP certification exam.

With this course and a minimum of two (2) PV system installations, one
can sit for the NABCEP certification exam.

http://www.nabcep.org/

Pass this exam, and you become NABCEP certified as a PV Installer. As I
understand it, the NABCEP certification is rapidly becoming a valuable
piece of paper in the PV installation universe.

At present, I am looking for an opportunity to install some PV systems.

If anyone out there is looking for an apprentice, intern, or an extra
hand for your installation contracts, PLEASE feel free to contact me. :-)

(Although I could potentially travel anywhere in the lower 48 states, if
your company is based in the Southeastern United States that would work
better for me. If your company is based within driving distance of
Atlanta, GA that would be ideal.)

--
Ed Lomax (edlomax at earthlink dot net)

2006-06-08 10:59:29 UTC

Post by Edward Lomax
Pass this exam, and you become NABCEP certified as a PV Installer. As I
understand it, the NABCEP certification is rapidly becoming a valuable
piece of paper in the PV installation universe.

It is indeed. Even Canada's CanSIA (Canadian Solar Industries
Association) is developing a sister program, designed in association
with NABCEP. I work in Quebec, where there exists an electrical general
contractor licence, "installation of electricity generating equipment"
covering solar, wind, microhydro, etc. that is even well beyond that.

Good luck with it!

DJ

Edward Lomax

2006-06-09 04:04:01 UTC

Post by DJ

DJ:

Over two-thirds of the people in my workshop class were either
electricians or electrical contractors.

To paraphrase my workshop instructor: Given the number of roofs that
could host modules, the decreasing of those modules, and the increasing
cost of electrical energy, it's not a matter of if there will be more
than enough work for everyone, it's a matter of when there will be
enough installers to meet the demand for residential and commercial PV
systems.

Thank you for the encouraging words.

--
Ed Lomax (edlomax at earthlink dot net)

Jeff

2006-06-08 14:35:42 UTC

Post by Edward Lomax

Just go down to Ack Radio. It's on Deering just up from Northside (the
train station is at Peachtree and Deering about where Midtown and
Buckhead meet). If you really are from Atlanta, you'll know. If you are
in the burbs...

Forget reading the catalogs. I was associated with the Stereo business,
and you can sell a "white boy" anything if you give them enough specs.
The "brothers" always wanted what a friend had, because they knew what
it would do. If you want durability, you want word of mouth. Your needs
beyond a DC amp probe are very modest, remember that computer you bought
that had the best of everything on and spent way too much, it's probably
in trash heap now.

Jeff

Post by Edward Lomax
I did not mean to start a potential flame war over the merits of cheap
versus expensive meters.
I took the Residential Photovoltaic Installation Workshop in the Solar
Energy Center at the State University of New York (SUNY) Farmingdale
last month.
http://www.tech.farmingdale.edu/depts/met/solar/
Farmingdale is located on Long Island, New York.
This was an *excellent* workshop and well worth my time.
SUNY Farmingdale is also an exam site for the NABCEP certification exam.
With this course and a minimum of two (2) PV system installations, one
can sit for the NABCEP certification exam.
http://www.nabcep.org/
Pass this exam, and you become NABCEP certified as a PV Installer. As I
understand it, the NABCEP certification is rapidly becoming a valuable
piece of paper in the PV installation universe.
At present, I am looking for an opportunity to install some PV systems.
If anyone out there is looking for an apprentice, intern, or an extra
hand for your installation contracts, PLEASE feel free to contact me. :-)
(Although I could potentially travel anywhere in the lower 48 states, if
your company is based in the Southeastern United States that would work
better for me. If your company is based within driving distance of
Atlanta, GA that would be ideal.)

Edward Lomax

2006-06-09 03:55:19 UTC

Post by Jeff
Just go down to Ack Radio. It's on Deering just up from Northside (the
train station is at Peachtree and Deering about where Midtown and
Buckhead meet). If you really are from Atlanta, you'll know. If you are
in the burbs...

Hi, Jeff.

I'm not a native Atlantan, but I live in Decatur and think I can find
Ack Radio.

Post by Jeff
Forget reading the catalogs. I was associated with the Stereo business,
and you can sell a "white boy" anything if you give them enough specs.
The "brothers" always wanted what a friend had, because they knew what
it would do. If you want durability, you want word of mouth. Your needs
beyond a DC amp probe are very modest, remember that computer you bought
that had the best of everything on and spent way too much, it's probably
in trash heap now.

I know quite a few "brothers" and know exactly what you mean.

Thanks for the tips.

--
Ed Lomax (edlomax at earthlink dot net)

Hawker

2006-06-08 14:56:46 UTC

Hey Ed,

I'm assuming your down in HotLanta?
If so, and you want to drive up three hours for a nice weekend in the
mountains, and meet a pile of Solar installers (who might need
Apprentices) or see what is out there...
You might want to consider attending Back Home Mags shindig called SEE
or Southern Energy Expo.
It is up in Asheville (Ashevegas to us).. link is here.
http://www.seeexpo.com/

Lots of vendors and workshops with your ticket.

A decent show - although the last year it has started becoming more
political and less alternative energy.

Hawker

On 6/7/2006 11:57 PM, The digits of Edward Lomax's hands composed the

Post by Edward Lomax

MANY thanks to you all for your helpful advice and suggestions.
I have ordered catalogs from Fluke, Wavetech, and Extech. I will also
look into the Cen-Tech line. I will make a decision after read the
catalogs and do some additional research on some of the models that were
suggested.
I did not mean to start a potential flame war over the merits of cheap
versus expensive meters.
I took the Residential Photovoltaic Installation Workshop in the Solar
Energy Center at the State University of New York (SUNY) Farmingdale
last month.
http://www.tech.farmingdale.edu/depts/met/solar/
Farmingdale is located on Long Island, New York.
This was an *excellent* workshop and well worth my time.
SUNY Farmingdale is also an exam site for the NABCEP certification exam.
With this course and a minimum of two (2) PV system installations, one
can sit for the NABCEP certification exam.
http://www.nabcep.org/
Pass this exam, and you become NABCEP certified as a PV Installer. As I
understand it, the NABCEP certification is rapidly becoming a valuable
piece of paper in the PV installation universe.
At present, I am looking for an opportunity to install some PV systems.
If anyone out there is looking for an apprentice, intern, or an extra
hand for your installation contracts, PLEASE feel free to contact me. :-)
(Although I could potentially travel anywhere in the lower 48 states, if
your company is based in the Southeastern United States that would work
better for me. If your company is based within driving distance of
Atlanta, GA that would be ideal.)

Edward Lomax

2006-06-09 03:57:09 UTC

Post by Hawker
Hey Ed,
I'm assuming your down in HotLanta?
If so, and you want to drive up three hours for a nice weekend in the
mountains, and meet a pile of Solar installers (who might need
Apprentices) or see what is out there...
You might want to consider attending Back Home Mags shindig called SEE
or Southern Energy Expo.
It is up in Asheville (Ashevegas to us).. link is here.
http://www.seeexpo.com/
Lots of vendors and workshops with your ticket.
A decent show - although the last year it has started becoming more
political and less alternative energy.
Hawker

Hi, Hawker.

You'd be right.

I just went to the SEE expo website. I will try to mosey up to Asheville
for this event. I assume that I would meet you and that pile of
installers during this event.

In 2001, I attended the Midwest Renewable Energy Fair in Madison, WI

http://www.the-mrea.org/energy_fair.php

The 2001 Fair was a sprawling show with a major focus on alternative
energy and some related activities (for example, green building,
sustainable agriculture).

Unfortunately, I am unable to attend this year's Fair. James Howard
Kunstler, noted social critic, Peak Oil activist, and author of "The
Long Emergency", will be the keynote speaker this year. It may be that
this fair is becoming increasingly political as well.

I am not a native Atlantan or Georgian but, a LOT of folks here have
nice things to say about Asheville and the many cool people who live
there.

I believe that I may have just met one. :-)

THANK YOU for both the advice and this excellent tip.

--
Ed Lomax (edlomax at earthlink dot net)

David L. Jones

2006-06-06 10:13:21 UTC

Post by Edward Lomax
Hello, Everyone.
Recently, I attended an excellent 4-day workshop on the installation of
residential photovoltaic systems. As a result, I plan to install such a
system at my home after I rustle up some additional cash (sizing TBD).
During the hands-on portion of the workshop, the instructor suggested
that we eventually purchase a portable multimeter and clamp-on ammeter
as a part of our installation toollkit. (She was using Wavetech and
Fluke meters)
I have sent this message to get your suggestions and recommendations
regarding useful and effective meters for PV system installations.
My budget for these tools? Within reason (<= $500 each), price is no
object.
Given that I am also seriously considering PV system installation as a
second career I would be willing to invest some serious cash for quality
tools.
Please respond to me directly as well as to this newsgroup.
Thanks.
--
Ed Lomax (edlomax at earthlink dot net)

If you have $500 to spend then don't consider anything but a Fluke,
they are the only decent high end meter left on the market.
Fluke have the best reputation for reliability and quality that is well
deserved.
All professional electrical and electronics contractors use Fluke and
nothing else.
You'll want a CATIII/IV rated meter for mains installation work.

Any Fluke 70 or 170 series will do you just fine, they are the
traditional model for electrical installers.
The 80 series has more features (which you'll rearely use), and at your
price point I'd be looking at this instead of the 70 series.

Dont go the 189 series, the menu operation and battery life sucks.

eBay usually has good prices on the new 80 series V.

For the clamp meter, go Fluke again.

BTW, I'm an electronics design engineer, so I know about this sort of
stuff :->

Dave :)

David L. Jones

2006-06-06 10:31:47 UTC

If you have $500 to spend then don't consider anything but a Fluke,
they are the only decent high end meter left on the market.
Fluke have the best reputation for reliability and quality that is well
deserved.
All professional electrical and electronics contractors use Fluke and
nothing else.
You'll want a CATIII/IV rated meter for mains installation work.
Any Fluke 70 or 170 series will do you just fine, they are the
traditional model for electrical installers.
The 80 series has more features (which you'll rearely use), and at your
price point I'd be looking at this instead of the 70 series.
Dont go the 189 series, the menu operation and battery life sucks.
eBay usually has good prices on the new 80 series V.
For the clamp meter, go Fluke again.
BTW, I'm an electronics design engineer, so I know about this sort of
stuff :->
Dave :)

Almost forgot, make sure you get "True RMS" capability on both the
multimeter and the clamp meter. If you don't have True RMS, your AC
measurements will not be accurate on non-sinusoidal waveforms.

Dave :)

News

2006-06-06 16:24:18 UTC

I wish I could say the same. My Fluke died. The LCD display disappeared.

William P.N. Smith

2006-06-06 17:07:34 UTC

Post by David L. Jones
Fluke have the best reputation for reliability and quality that is well
deserved.

I wish I could say the same. My Fluke died. The LCD display disappeared.

Yeah, I left my old one out in the sun and the display overheated. $20
and 5 minutes to swap the display and it was as good as new, and still
working almost 3 decades later.

Jeff

2006-06-06 21:21:58 UTC

I wish I could say the same. My Fluke died. The LCD display disappeared.

It's been a while since I owned a Fluke, but I thought they were
overrated and died more often than the cheap meters. I was in the repair
business for years and was tougher on them than most. I've killed two
flukes as opposed to one of the other brands.

Almost all my measurements were DC, but you would want true RMS if you
are dealing with inverters. As far as accuracy on DC, even a $4 digital
meter is very very accurate. We didn't have DC clamp meters, but that is
one cool idea!

Also, I've always hated auto ranging meters, sluggish and annoying.

Jeff

David L. Jones

2006-06-06 22:07:32 UTC

I wish I could say the same. My Fluke died. The LCD display disappeared.

Take it back, they have a lifetime warranty.

Post by Jeff
It's been a while since I owned a Fluke, but I thought they were
overrated and died more often than the cheap meters. I was in the repair
business for years and was tougher on them than most. I've killed two
flukes as opposed to one of the other brands.

I've had the complete opposite experience. In our production department
for example, we have kitted the operators out numerous times with cheap
meters, and not a single one of them has survived the oils, water,
drops onto concrete floors etc. Some of them only last a matter of
weeks before the cases crack, switches don't work etc. Not one single
Fluke 70 or 80 series has died, with the exception of the Fluke 19
series which was a trial run made in China with cheaper parts and case,
instead of made in the US. They quickly discontinued that model and
learned their lesson!

Post by Jeff
Almost all my measurements were DC, but you would want true RMS if you
are dealing with inverters. As far as accuracy on DC, even a $4 digital
meter is very very accurate. We didn't have DC clamp meters, but that is
one cool idea!

What the Fluke gives you over the cheap meters is "measurement
confidence". The Fluke is made with *much* higher quality stable
components, particually the thick film reference resistor network. This
means that you can be more confident the Fluke is giving you a correct
reading, throughout it's entire life, or calibration period, whichever
comes first ;->

Fluke don't give you a *lifetime* warranty for nothing.

I've opened dozens of meter brands, and the only one that came close to
the Fluke in build and component quality was Tektronix. Fluke now own
Tektronix meters.
The wavetek/metermans are decent quality, and I think they have been
bought out by Fluke too.
If you are going to buy a cheap Taiwanese meter, I'd suggest the
Brymen.

Post by Jeff
Also, I've always hated auto ranging meters, sluggish and annoying.

I don't agree. A good autoranging meter is quicker and much less hassle
than changing ranges.
But I can appreciate why some people like them, that is why most
autoranging metrs have a manual range override.

Dave :)

Jeff

2006-06-07 03:12:15 UTC

I wish I could say the same. My Fluke died. The LCD display disappeared.

Take it back, they have a lifetime warranty.

How long have they been doing that?
I'm pretty sure my 70 series has hit the trash heap, but I have a dead
8012A (desktop) on the shelf still.

Can someone explain to me why you would need an expensive meter to do
a PV setup?

Jeff

What the Fluke gives you over the cheap meters is "measurement
confidence". The Fluke is made with *much* higher quality stable
components, particually the thick film reference resistor network. This
means that you can be more confident the Fluke is giving you a correct
reading, throughout it's entire life, or calibration period, whichever
comes first ;->
Fluke don't give you a *lifetime* warranty for nothing.
I've opened dozens of meter brands, and the only one that came close to
the Fluke in build and component quality was Tektronix. Fluke now own
Tektronix meters.
The wavetek/metermans are decent quality, and I think they have been
bought out by Fluke too.
If you are going to buy a cheap Taiwanese meter, I'd suggest the
Brymen.

Post by Jeff
Also, I've always hated auto ranging meters, sluggish and annoying.

David L. Jones

2006-06-07 03:56:51 UTC

I wish I could say the same. My Fluke died. The LCD display disappeared.

Take it back, they have a lifetime warranty.

How long have they been doing that?

For maybe 4-5 years now. All 70 and 80 series meters (plus a few other
models) have a "limited lifetime warranty".

Post by Jeff
I'm pretty sure my 70 series has hit the trash heap, but I have a dead
8012A (desktop) on the shelf still.

I've heard of a few people returning 70 series meters that they bought
before the lifetime warranty thing started getting them fixed for free.
Don't count on it though.

Post by Jeff
Can someone explain to me why you would need an expensive meter to do
a PV setup?

You don't.
Technically you can buy 10 el-cheapo meters for the price of one bottom
range Fluke 70 meter. But when the cheap meter dies on you in the field
(and it most likely will) that costs you money and frustration. The
Fluke most likely won't fail on you in the field, and you can be
confident about the readings because it uses precision components, and
the probe connections don't go intermittent on you etc.
It's often good to pay the money for good tools, esp if you use and
rely on it every day.

Also, if you are working on high voltage mains gear, or anything on the
grid, you want good quality surge protection so that the meter won't
expode in your face when lightning hits 20km away. The Fluke probes are
also much safer and properly designed for high voltage work. Cheap
meters have cheap probes, no HRC fuse, little surge protection etc.

Open up one of the cheap $30 meters and you will be shocked at the poor
quality of construction. There are blow holes in the solder joints, dry
joints on the probe connectors, brittle plastic cases, poor battery
life, crappy switch contacts, th lowest quality components. That all
adds up to trouble and a lack of confidence when using it.

Dave :)

News

2006-06-07 09:49:03 UTC

Post by News
I wish I could say the same. My Fluke died. The LCD display disappeared.

Take it back, they have a lifetime warranty.

How long have they been doing that?

For maybe 4-5 years now.

Mine was well older than that. The cost of having them look at the meter and
maybe replace the LCD display and maybe other components was just not worth
it. I bought a mid-range meter, of which the Fluke was not twice as good in
quality, but 3 to 4 times the price. Depending on what you are doing with
the meter (high accuracy is essential, etc) I would consider other cheaper
brands and even if you replace more often it is still better financially.

Post by David L. Jones
Technically you can buy 10 el-cheapo
meters for the price of one bottom
range Fluke 70 meter. But when the
cheap meter dies on you in the field
(and it most likely will) that costs you
money and frustration.

If they are so cheap then have two, and one as stand by. It is the same
argument of top range Panasonic, Makita, etc, battery drills. When they
break down it is the down time that kills the tradesman, and they break down
at sometime - and they don't bounce when dropped off ladders either. If he
has 3 cheapies in the van he has no down time when one breaks down and still
better off financially in the capital cost and the all important down time.

Post by David L. Jones
Open up one of the cheap $30 meters and
you will be shocked at the poor
quality of construction. There are blow
holes in the solder joints, dry
joints on the probe connectors, brittle
plastic cases, poor battery life, crappy
switch contacts, th lowest quality components.
That all adds up to trouble and a lack of
confidence when using it.

That is the bargain basement meters. Decent quality mid-range meters can be
had that are not built that way.

David L. Jones

2006-06-07 10:38:14 UTC

Post by News
I wish I could say the same. My Fluke died. The LCD display disappeared.

Take it back, they have a lifetime warranty.

How long have they been doing that?

For maybe 4-5 years now.

Better financially perhaps, but that's not often the point.
But if you can find a cheaper meter that meets your particular quality
requirements, then go for it.
BTW, what is the brand of mid-range meter you bought?
I'm not saying one is silly if they don't buy a Fluke, it's just that
Fluke are the best quality, and if you have the money and want the
best, that's what you get.

At work we have a whole range of meters of different brands, some
bought under budget constraits where it wasn't possible to get a Fluke
at the time. Some are perfectly good meters that will last a long time.

Having a spare in the van ain't going to be much colsolation when you
are up on the roof or under the house. Nor will it help much when a
cheapie drifts and gives you the wrong reading which you won't know
about until something goes wrong later.
This comes back to "measurement confidence". Meters take absolute
readings, and if you want to be confident in that reading you really do
need a good quality meter. A meter is not the same a power tool in this
respect.

But it's a moot point really, some people use cheapies and they do the
job, others don't have such luck.

That is the bargain basement meters. Decent quality mid-range meters can be
had that are not built that way.

Correct. Ones that cost half as much as Fluke. Personally I'd spring a
bit more and get the Fluke. But other brands as I mentioned (plus there
are others) are decent too.

In electronics design though there is another good reason to get a
Fluke. A lot of other brands are a real hassle to get calibrated, but
everyone does Fluke. The new Flukes have closed case calibration too
which is really nice. A meter that can't be calibrated, or requires
that you break the cal seal to change the battery is useless for many
demanding applications.

Dave :)

Jeff

2006-06-07 11:43:08 UTC

Post by News
I wish I could say the same. My Fluke died. The LCD display disappeared.

Take it back, they have a lifetime warranty.

How long have they been doing that?

For maybe 4-5 years now.

Well, I suppose like so much else that a lot of consolodation has
gone on. Out with the Beckmans and Techtroniks...

But why the need for high accuracy? And why would the OP need the
best meter for essentially home use? Is there something about PV that I
don't know?

Myself, I'm more apt to use the $4 Chinese meter (with replacement
high quality leads), when I was fixing amps and inverters it was more
than I needed and I never minded giving one away! Now, cheap hand tools,
cheap soldering irons and cheap computer monitors, that's another matter!

Maybe I'm just jaded...

Jeff

Post by David L. Jones
I'm not saying one is silly if they don't buy a Fluke, it's just that
Fluke are the best quality, and if you have the money and want the
best, that's what you get.
At work we have a whole range of meters of different brands, some
bought under budget constraits where it wasn't possible to get a Fluke
at the time. Some are perfectly good meters that will last a long time.

Having a spare in the van ain't going to be much colsolation when you
are up on the roof or under the house. Nor will it help much when a
cheapie drifts and gives you the wrong reading which you won't know
about until something goes wrong later.
This comes back to "measurement confidence". Meters take absolute
readings, and if you want to be confident in that reading you really do
need a good quality meter. A meter is not the same a power tool in this
respect.
But it's a moot point really, some people use cheapies and they do the
job, others don't have such luck.

That is the bargain basement meters. Decent quality mid-range meters can be
had that are not built that way.

Correct. Ones that cost half as much as Fluke. Personally I'd spring a
bit more and get the Fluke. But other brands as I mentioned (plus there
are others) are decent too.
In electronics design though there is another good reason to get a
Fluke. A lot of other brands are a real hassle to get calibrated, but
everyone does Fluke. The new Flukes have closed case calibration too
which is really nice. A meter that can't be calibrated, or requires
that you break the cal seal to change the battery is useless for many
demanding applications.
Dave :)

David L. Jones

2006-06-07 12:41:23 UTC

Post by News
I wish I could say the same. My Fluke died. The LCD display disappeared.

Take it back, they have a lifetime warranty.

How long have they been doing that?

For maybe 4-5 years now.

Well, I suppose like so much else that a lot of consolodation has
gone on. Out with the Beckmans and Techtroniks...

Yes, I'm a bit miffed with that actually. Fluke have no major
competition any more, there really are no other high end multimeter
makers, just the mid-rangers. Choice is always good.

Post by Jeff
But why the need for high accuracy? And why would the OP need the
best meter for essentially home use? Is there something about PV that I
don't know?

There is no need for high accuracy, esp for PV work, 1% is fine, and
even a $10 meter can do that.
PV can involve high voltages and probably some mains work too. For that
I'd want a meter designed properly for high voltage work, with surge
protection. A $20 meter won't have that, but a quality brand $100+
meter will.
I'm recommending the Fluke for it's high voltage surge protection and
ruggedness, not accuracy. Dosn't hurt that it has a nice big clear
screen, long battery life, and lifetime warranty either!

The OP said he wanted to go into commercial PV work, and has $500 to
spend on a good meter. You can get say a Fluke 177 for US$150, which
has True RMS, is CAT IV rated, is super rugged, and lifetime warranty.
Can't go wrong there. In thi case I can't see the value in skimping and
getting say a $50 meter instead.

Post by Jeff
Myself, I'm more apt to use the $4 Chinese meter (with replacement
high quality leads), when I was fixing amps and inverters it was more
than I needed and I never minded giving one away! Now, cheap hand tools,
cheap soldering irons and cheap computer monitors, that's another matter!

Bench work is a bit different to PV installation, the meter doesn't get
beat around, dropped off the roof, burried in the dirt under the house
etc. A good quality rugged meter will survive that stuff.

Dave :)

p***@gmail.com

2006-06-07 06:14:36 UTC

Post by Jeff
Can someone explain to me why you would need an expensive meter to do
a PV setup?
Jeff

Say Hey Jeff !!

Now that is what I call a down to earth logical reply when it comes to
PV setups.

Bob
Thailand

News

2006-06-07 09:36:27 UTC

Post by News
I wish I could say the same. My Fluke died. The LCD display disappeared.

Take it back, they have a lifetime warranty.

Well thrown out by now.

Post by Jeff
It's been a while since I owned a Fluke,
but I thought they were overrated and
died more often than the cheap meters.

My experinece and of others I know.

<snip good opposed opinions>

Anti-Spam

2006-06-06 10:35:56 UTC

I only use Fluke Digital multimeters, and AVO Analogue multimeters, in
my opinion the best and I have been in electronics for some 30 years.
Never used a clamp meter, so can't help you on that one.

William P.N. Smith

2006-06-06 12:10:16 UTC

Post by Edward Lomax
During the hands-on portion of the workshop, the instructor suggested
that we eventually purchase a portable multimeter and clamp-on ammeter
as a part of our installation toollkit. (She was using Wavetech and
Fluke meters)

I'll reinforce the reccomendations for Fluke equipment, I've got an
87-V meter that does more than I'll ever use, and gave the Fluke meter
I bought in 1979(!) away just recently, though it was still perfectly
functional.

Fluke also makes a really cool AC/DC clamp-on ammeter, so you can read
battery charging currents and such.

My mind's gone(?) blank, but I also have an AC tester that measures
percent power drop on an outlet at various current levels, plus ground
impedance and such, so you can check wiring and connections in the
walls. Ask Google about a discussion of it in alt.energy.homepower a
while back (added that newsgroup to the list here).

wmbjk

2006-06-06 13:50:59 UTC

Most meters don't have a DC amp clamp. But if you're going to be in
the biz, you need one. The Fluke 337 is one example
http://www.reliableprocurement.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=RP&Product_Code=337
http://www.fluke.com/download/electricalpower/1629613_.pdf There are
plenty of others for less money.

You'll also want an AC Watt-hour meter such as a Kill a Watt or
Wattsup.
http://search.ebay.com/kill-a-watt_W0QQfrppZ50QQfsopZ1QQmaxrecordsreturnedZ300
http://www.electricitymetering.com/category/category.php?scdfa-230100461-selectMenuItem-idzq39&source=Adwords
I recommend the Kill a Watt, because it's cheap enough that you can
afford to have several, which will save time if you're auditing (as
opposed to estimating) someone's use. Leave one behind for the
customer when you're done. Get some short AC extension cords to make
the Kill a Watts more convenient to hookup and use.

None of the meters above can keep track of battery state of charge on
an operating system though. For that you need something like this
http://www.energyoutfitters.com/default.htm?http://www.energyoutfitters.com/products/p_m_electronics/xantrex_link10.shtm
Consider it a mandatory on every system.

Wayne

Lectron_Nuis

2006-06-06 19:55:39 UTC

Fluke.
And some years ago National Panasonic were marketing a entry
level range that was surprisingly good quality. No longer
available in Australia they may be a choice in your area of
operations?

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Bill Kaszeta / Photovoltaic Resources

2006-06-07 01:54:08 UTC

Check out the AC/DC digital clamp-on ammeter/voltmeter at Sears, about $50.

Once you have used a DC clamp-on to troubleshoot a PV system, you
will not give it up. There also have a $50 digital IR temperature probe
with laser pointer that is a great buy.

Bill Kaszeta
Photovoltaic Resources Int'l
Tempe Arizona USA
***@pvri-removethis.biz

Jeff

2006-06-07 03:18:08 UTC

Post by Bill Kaszeta / Photovoltaic Resources

Post by Bill Kaszeta / Photovoltaic Resources
Check out the AC/DC digital clamp-on ammeter/voltmeter at Sears, about $50.

How do they make those work? I would image they can chop the secondary,
or use a hall effect sensor.

Post by Bill Kaszeta / Photovoltaic Resources
Once you have used a DC clamp-on to troubleshoot a PV system, you
will not give it up. There also have a $50 digital IR temperature probe
with laser pointer that is a great buy.

That's a great price. What kind of resolution does it have?

Jeff

Bill Kaszeta
Photovoltaic Resources Int'l
Tempe Arizona USA

2006-06-07 13:50:26 UTC

Post by Edward Lomax
Hello, Everyone.
Recently, I attended an excellent 4-day workshop on the installation of
residential photovoltaic systems.

Whos?

Post by Edward Lomax
As a result, I plan to install such a
system at my home after I rustle up some additional cash (sizing TBD).

Always the trick, yep ;-).

I have a fluke I use, yes. It's working well.

Post by Edward Lomax
I have sent this message to get your suggestions and recommendations
regarding useful and effective meters for PV system installations.
My budget for these tools? Within reason (<= $500 each), price is no
object.

Go fluke, then. And keep in mind the ranges you will be working with
when you choose it. Max AC voltage and amperage, max DC voltage and
amperage. Alot of clamp-ons won't do both AC and DC amperage in the
same meter.
And I also keep a few of those cheap (5-10$) units around, especially
for tin roof work. If all I need to see is if the strings are the right
polarity and voltage, I'd rather accidentally drop a 10$ meter to the
ground than my fluke ;-).

Post by Edward Lomax
Given that I am also seriously considering PV system installation as a
second career I would be willing to invest some serious cash for quality
tools.

I run an alternative energy installation company myself, and as a word
of advice, don't go too nuts at the store ;-). Do the pawn shop / eBay
route as well. You will easily end up with 10 000$ worth of gear by the
time your company is in full swing. Getting it for cheaper tha that is
always a good idea. Be careful to make sure you have money left to pay
your suppliers ;-).

Post by Edward Lomax
Please respond to me directly as well as to this newsgroup.

Google doesn't seem to want to let me ;-).

DJ

Hawker

2006-06-07 14:09:44 UTC